Nanocasting – Sean Gilligan, Sound Branch – Voice Tech Podcast ep.021

Sean Gilligan Soundbranch

Episode description

Sean Gilligan is the founder of Sound Branch, a team communication app and voice-based social network in which where users create smart voice notes. Sean introduces us to the concept of nanocasting, and explains how it can be used for public broadcasting, team status updates, recruiting new staff, and more. We discuss the benefits of audio updates over other mediums, including greater privacy and accountability for content creators, and improved speed and convenience for content consumers.

Sean also explains how audio is unique in providing the perfect combination of authenticity of message and auditability of content, thanks to the combination of speech to text and search technologies. Sound Branch is a feature rich application that could well be the Twitter for voice that so many have been predicting, and this episode will help deepen your understanding of this emerging form of communication.

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Episode transcript

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welcome to the voice tech podcast car Robinson in conversation with the world leading Voice technology experts discover the latest products tools and techniques and learn to build the voice up to the Future instead of a debate as to who is right and massive voice only conversation determines what is right

hello and welcome back are today’s episode of a short and snappy one entitled nano casting in which will hear my conversation with Sean Gilligan the founder of Sound branch a team communication app and voice based social network in which show users create smart voice notes doing our conversation you’ll learn all about what nano casting is and how it can be used for public broadcasting team status updates recruiting new staff and more besides we discuss the benefits of audio updates over other mediums including greater privacy and accountability for content creators and improve speed and convenience for content consumers Sean also explains how audio is unique in providing the perfect combination of authenticity of message and auditability of content thanks to the combination of speech to text and search technologies some branches a feature-rich application that could well be there Twitter for voice that so many people have been predicting this episode will have deepen your understanding

coming of this emerging form of communication this episode is supported by dabba dabba dabba are experts invoice development build custom digital assistant solutions to businesses also provide free video tutorials and code templates to help you learn to build your own voice apps at / dab will find over 150 video tutorials for both beginners and experts containing step-by-step instructions for how to build apps for Amazon Alexa Google assistant Microsoft Cortana Yeovil Bixby and more as well as using industry-leading tools that just William de spoken watch the videos while you’re coding pause rewind and implement the techniques they demonstrated also offer free templates for building Alexa skills do you can download the code for the Xbox right at themselves and then use it to get your own up and running in no time all the free templates are rats killed him and all the tutorial videos at / DAB so if your

voice app developer or you’re thinking of becoming one you’re going to want to check out this amazing Resource and take your skills to the next level I want to thank God for making it podcast possible and for becoming a first champion sponsor our double lab tutorial of the week have to get started with the Alexa presentation language or IPL so if you remember APL was released to public beta only a few months ago in just 8 minutes Steven double lab to see how to use IPL to build highly engaging multimodal skills with responsive visual elements like graphics images and slideshows the link to the tutorial be on the next issue of our weekly newsletter boys chops Tuesday as O2 sign up for boys tops Tuesday just go to / newsletter continue to have a great response with the newsletter an hour 827 subscribers and I still getting a 40% open rate in an almost 10% click rate on the last episode last issue rather and also all the articles and now converted to audio form with beans with

we got the newly redesigned audio player live on the site now so go check it out on the subject of articles I’ve been inviting guest authors to publish content for the voice tech blog and the lead article this week as for my latest medium guest blogger J Myers and it’s the thought provoking piece entitled constructing multi turn conversation voice experiences with the Knowledge Graph and I give you a glimpse of how the conversation interactions at the future may be driven by graphs of interconnected data points so if you’re right on medium it’s super easy to contribute to the blog or you have to do is just go to a / publish send it to outer core link I was just add you as an offer on medium and you can submit your posts at your leisure out if you’re not a medium I’ll be still got some content to share with the voice tech audience just go to that URL as well and you can submit your article and we’ll get it published ok so without further ado it’s not my pleasure to bring you today’s guest Sean Gilligan

ok I’m here with Sean Gilligan the founder of Sound branch Sean how you doing thank you need got any office at 7 and win at 7 p.m. but the only 2 yards please take this into your shop notes as well and we just arrived yesterday and they’re on the call this evening I too have been at work all day if we both could have been in the middle of it but yeah let’s get it done it’s really interesting product that’s why I wanted to speak to you sound branch really keen to hear all about it nano casting such a cool name I we’re gonna we’re going to learn all about that but before you do if you just give us a bit of a background as per you know what they do you turn to found sound branch and now what what kind of projects been involved in there before that

text business quite quickly became number one or two in the market in the UK for school websites and then we branched out internationally and into corporate E-Learning say at the core business webanywhere is headquartered in the UK and has agreed processes in Poland in Katowice Addlestone Chicago in the United States do what I’m quite proud of his bed with bootstrap instructor way that in America and to the biggest achievement in the core business and what kind of core businesses are you said you’re involved in learning and website I see and then I do with Fortune 500 companies quite a lot in America and UK

element is not specific to do with Voice right so sound branch is what is it until I saw benches anywhere and agree with inventions anywhere sound branch and sound branch casting platform casting the up before we’d maybe you would like to do to find what nano casting is Allison certainly not a term that I’ve had the phone I’m really passionate about radio and Andy podcast a bit firmino casting is just like podcast import Bitesize chunks and advantages to their ok so sort by size chunks who would use this and then and what’s their what’s the main purpose of in who is a typical uses and can you give us an idea of what what now cast

yes it is something people currently do is it a trend that’s coming up as something that you guys I thought I from your own breakthrough in a discovery of human mankind but what I would say is that it’s not really happened before so this idea of voice only massive conversations so if you look on something that we clearly you’ve got better stream as noise and information coming down and if you like me to scan a scan read that so I guess the idea of taking that Twitter stream mobile phone text to short form audio and then creating a podcast fortunately there is made up of many people sources said look at traditional radio radio interview You’re Happy and Anchorman and then you have the debate with a to posing side this is actually bad democratizing radio in some ways and

the use cases which I come too but it’s about everybody having a voice and growing their voice sensitive to the 4 minutes of traditional Radio interview where you got maybe 3 people on a you might be listening to 10 or 20 people are so it’s definitely a concept that and I’ve had before Twitter for Twitter for voice is people usually say weather going to come from how’s it going to look at it when I first heard the concepts and posting that way I was a bit sceptical because you know there’s so much noise on Twitter and you know I would have thought I’d scanning through text wise and just dancing a few gifts is there is enough for me to hear that would perhaps be a cacophony so I mean do you have a vision of how this how this would come together and what what the pros and cons eBay yeah I think it’s fair to say that most people in the world don’t like public speaking so you know one-to-one chat is where people are comfortable there

unity more private group channel and then in the public domain on a public timeout setting the sun extrovert type people that like the book speaking and and white confident and is more introverted people and the general public that would prefer to listen and consume audio broadband speak out loud what’s interesting about nano casting and the changing of the voice speech people’s attention has that ability at keep attention is crucial so if for example you have 4 minutes of Radio interview and the three people and you’ve got 4 minutes of Radio interview and this baby 10 people I’d argue that the peace with 10 people in it is potentially more engaging and it’s not a more democratic so when you come to things like brexit and trump and all these controversial polarizing issues I think it should make for fascinating listening so for example with the brackets Saga that’s going on at the moment I’m sure lots

IVA the same Kenneth Clarke tweeting about his views that you’re a file with the brexit Debate only texting you only within the text that actually can the father of the house speaking with his voice that would be so much more interesting and I think you would liven up the dimmer to bed so clearly now he has its place within the public domain for public service radio im getting everybody’s voice heard but it can also be transformational and customer service and sales and in private teams and channels within businesses for internal communications and also they use cases with Sam branch for hiring and recruitment so what we done it sound branch ID we’ve actually created some horizontal software is not aligned with the particular vertical and it’s a bit like Google Docs in Office 365 it can be used in a multitude of ways and one of those case to this is Nana casting for public broadcasting at the

how do I use cases for productivity within business but interesting ok so yeah I’m familiar with social media for business products like, for instance there again I just spoke to a bit like Facebook lines but they allowed to share text and video and and and I guess audio clips although how to say no from the social media that’s out there and then and the products of business audio seems to be the one thing that hasn’t I haven’t seen as much of and so I suppose that bad? What why not when why haven’t we seen audio and and why is now the time for audio to be yeah yeah you to find its finest place I think it’s fake news and also cyberbullying things of this nature when it comes to the human voice I think people less likely to call people names with their voice because it’s easily identifiable we know that you need footprint with through DNA so I think people are less likely

slander people and Fritz Friv inhale abuse using their voice their ability of news again I’m not saying it’s blockchain where is traceable but you can quickly identify who the source of the news is and then whether that’s very foggy and genuine interesting yeah so I mean that when I first start considering this idea I would you know like I like I was just explaining I thought that the cacophony of that the text would would be replicated invoice and you’d have just people scream each other but I think you made a really valid point that you know when people actually have to put their own voice to a they have to be they know they’re going to be heard it’s a bit like having their face seen as well and that there going to be a lot more careful about when I say because it is actually then the anonymity is removed really cool feature within sound branch is that when people are communicating you get in a number of at Richer experiences we already know that voice is faster than texting you can speak

type do sound branch I’ve actually got sentiment analysis 2 from the Artificial Intelligence automatic happens is your voice messages tagged with an emoji based on the centre and also you’ve got very accurate life transcriptions and say actually when you send a voice message you got the richness of the voice that can be played a user can read it if they prefer to read the transcript and get the sentiment of a conversation so not only is it faster but it’s actually higher quality communication and therefore it’s not just for nano casting in the public domain and of course you can do beautiful but casting on Twitter cards with your own branding brand voice I suppose that but you’ve also got this massive productivity game in terms of speed of communication communication price of clarity of voicing clarity of communication and trust as a compelling use case and Amy may seem

but the business is as opposed to it being out in the public consumption and obviously at the greatest if the public can’t you know happened in in numbers but I guess that you’re giving out your business background it is a shame that businesses did Australia there is a business to consumer opportunity around the recreation of radio what’s going on with politics and some of the big conversations that are going on right hand itches level warning warning there’s also business opportunities is really tried for hiring people the sound branch podcasting and the same Bradford teams so I guess the the teams and the hiring use case of Sound branch a very much business to business and the podcasting or as we describe the nano casting is more out there in the general public domainpublic figures who won

way of storytelling as simple as a new customer and other stakeholders you stop people who vote for you absolutely they’re hiring I mean I seen some products out there like that where you know you’re asked to submit a video interview and but yeah I can absolutely be some use that and yeah it’s important that though it’s got the speech to text transcription as well because that work in in in the workplace you know I was going to be able to listen to audio but is there a few if you want it

ok listening listen up if you’ve been listening to the show for a while now and feel like it’s time to contribute just go to / donate where you can contribute $1 a month $4 a month or $8 a month to help people show running This podcast wouldn’t be possible without generous contributions from listeners such as yourself and if you’ve never use patreon before when I take this opportunity to give it a go they’ve made it super simple and secure to donate to independent content creators like myself and there’s never any Commitments you can cancel whenever you like you like to see the options my patreon page is that / donate I’d like to say a special thank you to Roger Kim our latest $8 a month patreon sponsor Roger is the developer evangelist for Viv. AI the engine behind Bixby to thank you so much and tears are also available for businesses so if you have a voicetech product that you like to promote on the podcast newsletter

log then you can become a voice tech champion at overturned / donate the more details ok so now let’s get back to this amazing episode what what what was the item what was the the seed of this idea I mean where did you get the idea for this and did it come from a previous project was it and I like my men like I used to wear to see that because the terminology within sound branch as you start with a 10 second seed and any branch with tents and branches that the standard platform sound branch., which is multimodal you can access it on iOS Android web Alexa and Google assistant and you can also create branded boys sites and apps where the duration can be increased up to 2 minutes but the starting of the idea and a seed of the idea does the official and unofficial story which one would you like 1st car won’t give me the official version

cakes for the official version was I’m sorted headquartered in Leeds and most of my working days are in the UK clearly cross the pond visit international time zone issue I had a team of Chicago that I was wanting to connect with and rather than have meetings at 9 and 22 at night at which pretty antisociable we thought the asynchronous communication and been effective way to communicate so what we started doing with the daily debrief that would last 10 seconds and a member of staff would literally go through those SCS, what hasn’t gone to work and how about the day be better that could be like Chad and for the branch in conversations would happen the magic happens is when someone saves a seed producers of Ice and it starts branching when you get the branch and that’s where the friction but the opportunities library an official story was just sat

table I just thinking deeply daydreaming and sort nobody’s done nano casting and that’s the unofficial story sounds like it was born from a real need within your business and I love the fact that you’ve tested it with me when you know real users your own employees and colleagues before you know launching it for general consumption and so yeah ok whatever you mention multimode as well at least you got the emojis what are the what are the what are the multimodal features are there in and how does that support the the audio experience Alexa and Google assistant device is off but I can get Alexa SME branch play my timeline and up play my timeline I can go Alexa Assam play my inbox no play my inbox I can get Alexa SME branch search Chicago and all those voice messages and people regarding Chicago playback with the human voice like a flash

thing but for your life your workout schedule different to video then like what’s the pros and cons for doing voice + text + emoji as opposed to having having a video from since why not just want to send a video to talk about that within the context of hiring I think if you’ve got people out and about and it’s raining and then a recruiter or hiring manager says could you produce a video but might not stop the doing then and actually produced the video because it looking professional they might have wet wet hair the umbrella may have folded surface speed does a speed think about getting things done fast and people being comfortable and it was decided not judging a book by its cover so if we look at inclusive recruitment and diversity within the workforce we all tend to people

like people like ourselves but I think the listening to person rather than seeing them face-to-face could be quite telling so for me I think it’s easy for the candidate to just record their voice it says yes it’s may be slightly unusual compared to typing an email or texting but it’s not as daunting perhaps is recording a video which some people just feel really comfortable with the course the videos richer but it’s going to take longer think you know people need to be in a professional setting the Checkout there are scared that they are looking their best and I just think it’s slower in the days true yeah there’s a speed element as a hands-free element in Absolutely there’s a there’s that kind of your what you’re partially shielded I mean off tonight when I do Skype calls I generally don’t turn the video on I prefer digital audio only in many calories in one the podcast of the day I absolutely get your point and before you mentioned a massive open online conversations I’ve still struggling to imagine how it’s

maybe I’m from the podcast inside because I did a previous podcast without with a guest at a podcast to the future and listen to longtime listen to the show will remember that one time and I may be discussing having a nose short clips from 18 a.m. would you call it like at a circle or an Entourage of experts that have been carefully curated a bit like you do with you at your Twitter feed do you get there that the best advice on a subject are all at once I thought that was that was an idea that stuck out for me that stick out for me on there from that episode what’s your vision for these massive online massively open online conversations and I mean that the idea of a massive voice only conversation instead of a debate as to who is write a massive conversation determines what is right so it is ideal the wisdom of the Crowd so good example of Sound branch technology

inaction is if you go to Mum’s it’s like Mumsnet but it’s actually 15000 months are on their posting questions and answers using voice notes Barry celebrities in the UK but there’s lots of firms in Scotland Australia all around the globe talking about how they bring it up kids pregnancy all sorts of issues and there’s a story behind us and that is there when myself and Claire my wife were having our first child Joseph eichler had gestational diabetes and was used to do with Google sheets search problems and questions and what would happen if you get tax back and because that was wasn’t emotionally just amplified anxiety so what’s beautiful to see in action with mum’s anywhere., that you’ve got Mum’s experience in experience helping each other user generated content with voices or searchable such as you can do that

massage high emotional content on there and it’s worth call at checking that out with your listeners anywhere that comes with the 10th mum’s listening it’s a great site to check out and it really does utilised that power the emotion of enforcement yeah ok for everything else so that there aren’t these niche Communities out there that you know already sharing voice messages in in large numbers but I guess it hasn’t hit like mainstream consciousness the at least I don’t think I do think everybody is aware that these things are going on WeChat is one that I am familiar with in China it’s so I think that the biggest peer to peer messaging service is like the equivalent of WhatsApp and they have had for a long time these these push to talk I know all your messages which are pretty popular over there but I haven’t seen it so much

over here you know I am not sure what what what’s been the friction what’s been the Resistance by westerners with that hasn’t really caught on have you if you got any feelings on that why that might not have my life and I think it’s starting to to turn the tide and that is when you can’t run it interesting experiments will be friends that if you’re on WhatsApp if you share a voice note the reply with texting other’s reply with their voice of interesting things you can do it about habits isn’t it Breaking Bad Habits if you look Argentina think voice notes are you quite a lot there are on the Far East and thus in the UK where little bit more reserved so maybe we don’t like the sound of Rolls-Royce made with brush and so cool but I think it’s coming with millennials now they’re expecting messaging systems over email looks peace millennial don’t have email addresses and that they’re looking for faster quicker more technological Roses

communicating the other however frightened by phone calls so you know what the voice message take over or they just going to rely on text an email would be that the mission of Sound branch to get people talking against it’s not that screen time it’s about voice timing actually in business in life you got to talk to people and South Inc voice notes is that Halfway House really between a meeting a telephone and an email to give that emotion and comforting I think a lot of people prefer because I don’t feel obliged to get back immediately they’re not put under pressure to come up with an answer immediately think it’s people’s attention but because it’s a synchronous and you’re recording just in time not live at last people to think about what they’re going to say before they say it and because it’s done intense

it could have been really appointed by the way I can Parrots difference between a silk pie and cottage pie you think about the threads in the silk tie a lot thinner than it’s a higher quality tie it is the same with Sam because she got lots of short audio that’s well Thought Out and equality the podcast although less spontaneous and less interrupting happens I think in some ways it’s not pointed on all four democratic good also and dude perfect for a business application when you’re getting like you said when you get instead of support from your team you don’t want long rambling conversations you want to want straight to the point and you’ll soon want to be able to select and replay and the ones that you need to hear again on YouTube to it to reconsider so ok are plenty of benefits

voice chops Tuesday is a weekly newsletter to help you build better voice apps whether you’re looking for research charts depth charts or design tops there’s something in there for everyone just go to / newsletter and look forward to your Tuesdays let’s talk about how I built it out Caesars speech to text transcription uses real-time how does that work and what what service did you use to hosting all our services on AWS but actually the life transcription we chose Google and we have tried Siri on iOS but then we reverted to Google Cloud because it’s more accurate we felt interesting ok and what what are the technical implications further information or was it a straightforward thing like to get real-time speech to text and

the browser say doesn’t cost you but obviously if you know buying in services from AWS Google Cloud certain services do cost you are very small small fry a small amount you know some of the services are chargeable before he could pass on their customers through the advertising on at Castle obviously through selling subscriptions to your business software sure John but it’s so this is very reasonably priced very reasonably priced I should say at end of sentiment analysis say the same thing you can do to you in AWS service so that will be plugged into the big players ok wonderful alright I’ll see your Gathering data on your on your customers use your site assume storing the audio data or do you need to gain get the permission from your business customers before you do that how does that work but how do you deal with the data that you gather in it and what do you do with it as well

to meet all gdpr compliance has the right to be forgotten so any user can go and delete their account delete that content and be forgotten it in effect there’s obviously standard terms conditions and privacy statement Square uses certainly on the public nano casting understand you know what is a Ladbrokes not really any sort of inappropriate content will be removed can also be reported play the mutts monitored weather that sound branch or mum’s anywhere that that happens ok I’m sure you’ve heard again with with the shock of Instagram and other stories around suicide at Mary’s Church social networks are certainly the limelight and regulation is coming again I come back to this point there with the 40th I think it’s easy to less than and spend some of these are robots bit at first but now not saying there’s not going to be boxed in the future where takes my voice pretends to be me and post

voice in some way is a barrier to that I think it’s harder to replicate certainly right here right now some people might argue that isn’t case but I just think it’s not saying that any social network you say he gives us great freedom is freedom of speech and right driving a car you could be careful crossing the road he could be careful but I just think it’s a bit more comfort and safety with voice so I think it is interesting ready cos you’re not sick I’m not seeing any controversy still in its infancy not seen any controversial highly polarised in conversation Twitter and it’s getting really really heated up for matures and more more people start using it happened yeah absolutely anything but videos been around for a long long time and I find it hard to believe that though the Ethical considerations will be any more severe with with just the voice channel then it will

what we’ve had with video but of course site all the things that you said was absolutely need to be in a monitored and and Endowed with overtime with the data you do capture from from the from the user conversations and stuff what kind of services does that allow you to provide I know you do the speech to text into the Sun analysis but what kind of offline asynchronous kind of stuff can you do in terms of conversation analysis other kind of insights that you can now reveal to the the business clients say for example either for yourself within the last 6 months over a datetime range of your choosing the last year the last month to see what words you’ve been saying which word coming up at a frequent and which ones aren’t so that’s interesting we stop looking at locations or name so which people’s names are you mentioning the most which locations are you mention the most you can stop analysing yourself you can then do that

within a private group so without us senior leadership team on your project team can start to see what phrases and words coming up I think if you’re a leader you know it be fitted to say well done in praise staff ask open-ended questions again you can start interrogating at the word word cloud and then click on the word and it shows you the search results about those conversations that’s quite interesting that each row conversational Analytics with CRM portals the financial system so this idea that you got your top 10 customers in the CRM let’s play but those conversation to senior leaders and director saying now let’s patients which middle management saying regarding those top 10 customers and let’s go to the shop floor a look at the people is servicing the customers and see what they say and an actually doing units of management accounting a board meeting at whereby you’ve got all the grass the financial data instead of written commentary that actually play the audio and at Coventry

life and it is that authentic you know there’s no Chinese whispers I have reminders for the exciting I think moving into CRM at there’s lots of people driving around they can’t look at black and Twitter when they’re in her car at least they can’t do that legally in the military to play Back voice note but again looking at how those voice notes from customers or internal advice next light fitting with sales funnels and sales Analytics to collect increase average order most things I can I get paid on a Rangemaster picture there in combined with voice search the ability to access that you know that transcribe data and listen to the audio straight away and in contact and everything is running off it like you say with those to this conversation is that the branch away and yeah it sounds very powerful and type of her and lytic stool and down and business management tool


I’ve been reading a lot about to watch a video isn’t if x then y combinator at the moment and beside a product market fit and thinking about a situation where your hairs on fire does it solve the problem so unique you need a massive Bristol market you could go to find a significant problem you can solve with the winning team and this search for product market fit and was great I’ve been lucky because I’ve been an entrepreneur for 15 years and built up my own funds I’ve not taken on any external capital and because of that I have committed the cardinal sandwiches instead of creating a minimal viable product I’ve taken against them as to what the market might want to create something that is similar to Twitter LinkedIn slack so the big light companies try to unify and then with a twist of lemon I’ve had it all the voice into that and nothing was three big opportunities as sound branch looks for product market fit I think there’s the nano casting angle which

Toshiba headlights podcast that it was a team communication I think it’s the fastest richest way to communicate the teams especially those that distributed remote workers and within what I would call the extrovert side of a business lifers that use there their mouth with AirDrop know where is a chatty jobs Ayrshire Council there a salesperson talking a lot and then this opportunity around finding Talent and reimagining the telephone interview but also presenting recruitment agencies presenting that candidates in a different way of saying your CV sending out an audio profile to do your profiles also to have references audio references with reviews and because he’s not gone for a particular vertical like Healthcare or engineering and manufacturing you know it’s very broad and id like to think that whether you’re a recruiter a business manager

coming forecast a radio personality you can leverage sound branch different ways so the podcast like itself call you might get into nano casting and and pushing out Twitter cards on your Twitter feed if you’re a CEO of 100 or 200 person business you might you sound branch to better connect trainee sales forces 1802 and if you were hiring manager or recruiter you might differentiate yourself in the marketplace bitrate in audio profiles to save time money and differentiate yourself so are the three Pillars I don’t know which one is gonna a off will have to look at the data only time will tell but it’s an exciting journey and we spend a lot of blood sweat and tears in money on on producing the software and we’re proud of what we’ve achieved so far and the idea to start PC in 10 seconds and branch from the seed that’s that’s the name of the game we just hope it takes off

whatever helps a very interesting concept and like you say it’s got plenty of use cases I can definitely see it being used in small distributed teams are big large organisations that you know you don’t you really get to speak to her to most of the people in the company and maybe not in the mood to to read aloud of the dry no Enterprise updates but to sit and listen to Our feed of your inner colleagues that all over the world I can see that being out much more engaging and something that would definitely fit into the you know the work day as well so yeah I think it’s really to say I’m looking forward to seeing where are West Ham branch goes and addenda different ways that people end up using it like to meet face to face in London or Paris yes I hope so to keep in touch

ok so you just heard from Sean Gilligan the founder of Sound branch I think communication app and voice based social network in which show users create smart voice notes that’s all for today I hope you enjoyed listening are you can find all the show notes that I hope you enjoy this episode there’s many ways to spot the show how you can tell one friend or colleague about this episode in leave a quick review on iTunes sachet iTunes are you can write for the blog / publish or you can become a sponsor and / donate are your contributions really do make the show possible I’ll be back soon with another episode but until then I’ve been your house to Carl Robinson thank you for listening to the voice tech podcast

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